As happy as I am to see Jim back on the show, this Bobby isn’t our Bobby and he needs to not be an asshole to Sam and Dean after they gave him…basically everything. Safety, equipment, a car to drive, a place to live. He hasn’t earned that right. Just my opinion.
I don’t know if anyone giffed it. I still can’t gif from the show. But here’s the thing. If I was a Castiel fan, I would hate Dabb. Like HATE HIM so much. Dabb has written some of the shadiest lines and plot points about him even before this “you’re only good for bait” thing. The third wheel line was Dabb. Castiel saying yes to Lucifer because he felt useless was Dabb. Hell, KILLING Castiel? Dabb wrote it. It’s almost like he resents the character being there so instead he just passive-aggressively puts him down constantly, tortures him, and mocks him. Oh and recycles the exact same storyline for him season after season while refusing to ever give fans any continuity with his powers.
The thing that really bugs me is that they keep calling Castiel family but they don’t treat him that way. Think about it: if someone in your family made the same mistake over and over, wouldn’t you eventually set them down and say “Hey. We love you but you can’t keep doing this.” Sam and Dean call each other out like that all the time. BUT THEY DON’T EVER DO THAT WITH CASTIEL. Instead it’s just “Well, you tried, buddy. Good job.” That’s not how I treat my brother or my kids or anyone else in my family.
I’m not trying to be wanky here about Castiel because this isn’t on him. It’s on Dabb who just keeps doing the same thing over and over.
[I don’t want to say this on reblog of the relevant spoiler articles or interviews, because serial squee-harsher is not a great fandom identity and I already did the rant thing once on the Scooby Doo Dabb and Singer thing a couple of weeks ago, but I do want to talk about it. There have been discussions of Sam’s diminished role in the show itself, though I feel like even those have faded as people have grown resigned or drifted away, but I haven’t seen much public talk about the way the show is hyped specifically.]
Oh, look, some more Dean/Jensen exclusive publicity for SPN.
This is Dabb era, and in Dabb era SPN publicity is the “looks at smudged name on hand” meme brought to life.
When was the last time you read anything from Dabb that focused on Sam’s reactions and Sam’s story? When was the last time the major spoiler hooks featured Sam? When was the last time an episode was publicized with Jared interviews? When was the last time an episode summary focused on the centrality of Sam’s story?
Sam fandom raises the issue of Sam’s place in the show from time to time. The friendlier segments of Dean fandom say “yeah, I really think next season is going to be more focused on Sam.” But here we are in yet another “next season,” and we’re starting to get the big late-season spoilers, as well as the small fun-episode spoilers, and … they’re not focused on Sam. Even when Sam does have the emotional core of an episode (which usually means 2 minutes of intensity in half a season of blurred reaction shots and blows to the head, but we are genuinely excited and grateful), they come as a surprise. A pleasant surprise, sure, but no one from the show has been hyping the episode as “and there are some really great Sam moments.”
There is virtually nothing in the way the show is presented by TPTB and marketed to make it seem like they want anyone watching for Sam. ~The brothers~, yes, but ~the brothers~ is no longer shorthand for two equally weighted and developed characters. And I genuinely don’t understand why. Sure, Dean fandom is bigger (though that was less the case when the distribution of material was more even), but even if x is bigger than y, x + y is bigger than x alone. So many of the people I know who were drawn in by Sam’s story and Jared’s performance have stopped watching, and so many of those who are still watching do so with grim assertions of “I’m in this to the end of the line” rather than with expressions of present enjoyment.
[I know there are legitimate issues with the writing of Dean as well, aspects of Dean’s story that are neglected, points where his character seems flanderized or cheapened. (I’d argue that the lack of Sam as a real and equal alternative focus has not helped the writing and characterization for Dean.) ]
Anyway, I guess I’m feeling like this has become an elephant in the room. And it’s something I chat about in three PM windows at once, but not something I see much actual posting about, let alone questions in interviews or at cons.
I’ve pretty much stopped watching. I’m still writing fic (the marginalization of Sam in canon has the silver lining that it’s a goldmine for fic characterization), and from time to time I’ll catch up. But I haven’t watched an episode the night it aired in a long, long time, and that’s largely because, while I do every blue moon or so get after-the-fact “this had great material for Sam” publicity from my dash, the pre-episode material never makes it sound like a must-watch, exciting episode for Sam fans.
And I really don’t get why. This is not the Highlander, where there can only be one. Even if Sam’s arc is secondary, if they developed it and talked about it, it would draw some viewers, and there’s no reason to think it would lose other viewers. And if they had to think about what they were doing with Sam enough to present their thoughts to the audience, it might alert them to some of the writing weaknesses and imbalances that are affecting Dean and the show, as well as Sam.
All of this.
Sam’s marginalization is breaking my heart. I want to keep watching until the end, and I keep hoping he’ll get more screen time, but I’m losing hope.
OMG, THIS, ALL OF THIS!!!
Yes. Thank you. I came into this fandom as a little more of a Dean fan but I fell in love with Sam too. I completely understand why some of my friends who are Sam-fans have stopped watching. It’s really upsetting.
The way they’re giving classic Sam and Dean lines/moments like the “If you leave now, don’t you ever come back” is the writer’s attempt to draw on borrowed nostalgia to pull in the audience. Hey, I took an entire semester of TV Writing in Theory and Practice as an elective in college and I remember almost all of it. Okay, almost some of it. Whatever. Anyway. That isn’t an effective technique. For a spinoff to succeed, it has to stand alone. You cannot rely on borrowed good feelings from the show before it. So simply going “Hey look this girl is like Sam and maybe this one will be like Dean so watch!” is actually doing a disservice to your characters. The copy is never as good as the original and suffers in comparison. So let them be their own people and quit drawing phony parallels. Most of the audience smells that kind of disingenuity from a mile away and it turns them off the character.
Also? I think it’s terrible to make the Native American character an addict. It’s a nasty racial stereotype. Actually there are a lot of issues like that in this spinoff probably because in spite of the female cast, it’s being helmed by white dudes and as my friend said last night “White dudes gotta white and they gotta dude.” LOL
The dinosaurs on the other hand? SO MUCH STUPID FUN. I mean, I wanted to hate it. But my husband was next to me yelling Land of the Lost jokes at the TV and my friends on twitter were making me laugh so hard, I was in tears about it. Yes, it’s silly. But like I said before, this is what it is now. So all I can do is laugh. Some highlights from our twitter thread:
How long until they start calling that dinosaur family?
The dinosaur gets it’s own room in the bunker.
Dinosaur has first dibs on the tub.
Can’t wait for it to share a Brotherly Bonding Moment with Dean.
That quickly devolved into a fight between De-Rex shippers and Sa-Rex shippers that could only be settled by all of us agreeing to write one big fan fic called Wincestuous Rex.
My friend then won everything by tweeting this gif:
I mean, I can think of worse things than Sam and Dean being stuck in this primitive AU together. If there was any justice, we’d get to see them with make-shift weapons trying to survive the dangers there all tough and alone and smart and alone and rugged and ALONE. That would be fun to watch for a few episodes. But there we’re not that lucky so instead I will eagerly await the fan fiction.
I don’t know how to answer that. Can you quantify exactly how much you hate it so I have a range?
I’m kidding. I don’t like this season a whole lot. I didn’t like last season either tbh. Both have had their moments here and there but for the most part, they don’t do it for me. The focus isn’t on Sam and Dean. Things aren’t happening to them or because of them, they’re happening AROUND them and all they can do is react to it. It’s taken the heart right out of the show. The guys are still trying hard but even they don’t seem as engaged now. Can’t really blame them- the show’s recycling a lot of storylines and it has to be hard to stay excited. Like the writers spent a lot of time telling us Castiel was like a brother to them to make sure they could reuse the emotional impact of old-SPN when Sam and Dean died. But it doesn’t have that resonance anymore because we all know everyone comes back. Plus look at the first time Sam died. Jensen talked about how after that scene was over, he couldn’t stop crying for real because he put himself so deep into Dean’s headspace. When Cas died, he was apparently trying to get Misha to break by hitting him in the crotch. It’s just very different now and that’s to be expected after so long.
And right there is the real heart of it. It’s been SO LONG. 13 seasons. Every show I’ve ever watched that’s run for even a fraction of that time has ended with at least one disappointing season. Usually 2 or 3 tbh. Going way back to when I was a kid (or when I was a little older and watched a lot of TVLand), Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley, Cheers, Moonlighting, Growing Pains, Roseanne. God, Roseanne’s last season was so bad that when they reboot it for Netflix, they’re going to pretend it never happened. More recently, That 70s Show, Scrubs, Bones, CSI, The Office, Friends, Castle. I even hated the last season of Parks and Rec and that’s one of the greatest shows ever. It’s just the way things are. They lose focus, run out of ideas, sometimes they try adding a cute kid into the mix *ahem*. When people go back and watch it, they tend to ignore the bad seasons at the end and focus on the good stuff. That’s what Supernatural will be remembered for, I hope.
So for now, I’m just going to watch it for what it is and not compare it to the past. At least we get to spend time watching the boys for 22-23 weeks out of the year and sometimes it’s still good, right?
Are you really trying to spread Jared hate here? Not on my blog, thanks. I’m sorry but I find it mind-boggling that anyone who watches the panels regularly doesn’t see that at every single one, they try to balance each other out. Yeah, there were times that Jensen seemed annoyed. Hell, I’d say he was flat-out pissed more than once. He was as shady and grumpy as I’ve ever seen him. That wasn’t directed at Jared. Even when Jared spilled some of Jensen’s coffee, Jensen almost immediately laughed and shoved him back. No, looked to me like Jensen was irritated with certain elements of the fandom and what those people did over the last couple weeks. And when Jensen is in a bad mood like that, Jared works twice as hard to be over-the-top goofy and happy to distract both him and the audience. It’s why they make a great team.
The only part of your ask that has any validity is that yes. They are definitely going to censor themselves from here on out.
Here’s right after Jared said the word “asshole” too close to the mic:
They know why they have to censor themselves now too. They understand the root of the problem. When they told that routine joke about how Misha has a weak chin, this is Jared’s reaction:
And after Jensen took the joke further, he immediately had to add a disclaimer so the same group wouldn’t come after them AGAIN:
Look at his face. And I’ve already seen the SAME PEOPLE who started the smear campaign against them (which was fueled bc that group was already pissed when they said Misha wasn’t a third lead) say that this was directed at “bibros” who think they don’t love Misha. But see, no bibro I know believes they’re serious when they make jokes about Misha. It’s a small group of people from the other side that freaks out and hates on them when they do it. In fact, they freaked out so hard last time that they made sure to get Jared and Jensen a shit-ton of bad press and tried to equate a joke with them being “rape apologists”. Only one subset of people actually endangered their reputations and careers over the past couple weeks. So the mental gymnastics that bunch of wankers has to go through to make themselves feel better is astounding.
Still think he is unaware or not upset about what happened at the last con? Look at his face and body language after Jared whispered a joke to him and fans started yelling at him to say it:
Yeah, good point. Because that’s what they thought too until people turned on them. His face after Jared says this says a lot too:
Looks like Jensen is doubtful of the SPNFamily right about now. Can’t really blame him.
At the very end, one wonderful fan asked them how they are and her genuine concern touched them deeply…
I’m not sure what Jensen was about to say there but Jared stepped in and took some of the tension off by asking the fan how she is and then talking about how hard it is being away from their families. Jensen followed up with the same and then added that no matter how hard it is, they think the show and the cons are something that’s really special to them and they want to invest in that and protect it. That it won’t last forever and they know it. (Sorry- this is already so long so I won’t gif it. Here’s the link.) Jared finished the panel with this:
They don’t have to be there doing this. The way people have been behaving lately at cons and the wank that gets stirred up every time they do a con? The hate they get for it? That has to stop or they’re going to decide that the downside of doing it far outweighs the good stuff.
Oh no. I didn’t hate it. Usually after the ep is over, I do some things and get back on after a bit to reblog gifs. When I went to get back on last night, I didn’t have internet. I still don’t know why. It came back earlier today but it’s still not loading the gifs worth a damn so I reblogged a few but I did it blind based on the description. What’s up with gifs not loading? Is that happening to anyone else?
Anyway, I’ll put in a cut here in case anyone really doesn’t want to see spoliers.
There were parts of it I loved and parts of it I didn’t like. I’ve seen positive and REALLY negative reactions so I’m not going to rehash everything. I’ll just point out the one thing that’s been bothering me a little that I haven’t seen discussed. I was really glad to see Billie back. I love, love, love her and Lisa Berry is amazing. But that talk she had with Dean? I mean, she’s Death now, one of the Horsemen. So here’s another conversation between Dean and a Horseman:
FAMINE I disagree. (Famine moves closer to Dean and touches him) Yes. I see. That’s one deep, dark nothing you got there, Dean. Can’t fill it, can you? Not with food or drink. Not even with sex.
DEAN Oh, you’re so full of crap.
FAMINE Oh, you can smirk and joke and lie to your brother, lie to yourself, but not to me! I can see inside you, Dean. I can see how broken you are, how defeated. You can’t win, and you know it. But you just keep fighting. Just… keep going through the motions. You’re not hungry, Dean, because inside, you’re already…dead.
It feels pretty…samey. And that made me think about a few other things. In season 11, there was a Cas-says-yes-to-Lucifer storyline. Pretty much Sam’s arc at the end of season 5. Now Castiel dies, comes back, and they already hinted that it might not be the usual Cas. That sounds familiar, too. Soulless Sam, anyone? Sam and Dean are grief-stricken about losing a parent but they’re handling it differently. Plot twist! It’s Mary instead of John this time The preview for next week made it seem like Frontierland 2.0 and appears to have been created mostly because the fandom likes seeing Jensen in Western-wear. Which, yeah. We do. But come on. It almost feels like the writers put down all the ideas that worked before on little pieces of paper, threw them in a bag, shook it, and now they’re pulling them out when they need an idea. They just try to twist it enough that people hopefully don’t realize what’s up. And I get it. I do. It’s been 13 years and it’s tough to think of new ideas for these characters. There’s a formula to it. But the second time you see something, it never has the impact it did the first time you saw it, so some of it falls flat.
But you know what? It is what it is. I didn’t like last season at all. So far, I like this one better. Last night’s episode had some very cool effects, a creepy ghost, and some decent brother stuff at the beginning. It gave me material for my captions. That’s really all I ask at this point.
There will be potty language. And there will be no straddling the fence to appease both sides. So, read at your own risk. But, absolutely always feel free to respond and engage in discussion!
When I got into this show, I fell down the rabbit hole like everyone else, and watched con footage and interviews and became more invested than I ever have in a show because of all the (perceived) incredible positivity and kindness reflected from the cast to the SPN Family and vice versa. I had never seen anything like it. And I was so impressed with this fandom and proud to be a part of it that I do something I rarely do – I gushed about it to friends. Even though I knew they’d give me shit. Because we think we’re too cool for school or something. I don’t know.
My love for this show and fandom eventually led me to Tumblr and the actors Twitter feeds. I went full fangirl. I thought, “Yay! Other people who enjoy this amazing show. Gifs! Funnies! Fanfics! Art! Support!“ And there is that, undoubtedly….but there is also this seedy underbelly that gets far more attention that it merits. And I have become so disillusioned and angered by the shit I see here on the regular, not to mention Twitter…. that I feel like I need to disengage from following both (SPN-wise), so I don’t burst a fucking capillary.
Before I do that…. to the handful of "fans” that have caused a Twitter uproar and instigated shortsighted and nasty smear campaigns regarding:
1. Jareds inappropriate joke
2. Mark Pellegrino and William Shatner defending Jared over some other Twitter bullshit. They didn’t cause the initial offense, they merely defended their buddy against all the flamers….which, apparently is not allowed for these specific individuals. They’re so evil. How dare they have a human response to seeing their friend get charbroiled online. It’s like they think they’re real people….
3. Jensen supporting his FRIEND JDM when he was harassed and lambasted on Twitter and Instagram for wearing a Blue Lives Matter t-shirt. *Also, see #2*
4. Jensens retweet of Pellegrinos very nice message welcoming India to the SPN Family (flooding Jensens feed with demands that he not support his castmate and friend because Mark stood up to them or because they don’t agree with Marks ideology. Way to take something positive and turn it ugly, BTW. Sorry, India. Truly. I’m secondhand cringing over here.)
*Also, see #2*
5. *See previous rants on this page*
Can you please fuck off already? I hear Antarctica is nice this time of year, and that knitting is a great way to take your mind off things and meditate. I might follow my own advice, in fact. But stay the hell away from my yurt. I am stabby when it comes to you people.
There are always going to be people who feel compelled to stir up a lot of shit over anything these guys say and do, and they generally also apply that rule to most things in life, I’m guessing. And I know opinions are like assholes (everyone’s got one), but really, there seem to be a handful of folks that LIVE for the drama around here. Get a grip. Be useful. Because what you seem to enjoy doing – Tearing down public figures in order to promote your own agenda, and making threats and accusations and spreading them like cancer? It’s not productive. It’s toxic.
With regards to THE JOKE:
I don’t want to tell the joke. TELL IT! No, my jokes are all inappropriate. TELL it! Nah… TELL IT ANYWAY, WE DON’T CARE! *Tells joke* *Sees personal integrity torpedoed and potentially damaged career/legacy due to an influx of online articles based on a handful of tweets by reactionary “fans” who probably weren’t even there* Nice set-up, people.
Neither one of these guys is or has ever been anything but gracious to fans, not to mention caring and supportive. That’s why fans from all over the world come to see them and share their personal stories of hardship with this cast. And they are certainly not proponents of rape culture.
These conventions are for adults, by adults. And if you bothered to even watch a sampling of con footage of these guys, your delicate sensibilities would probably be overwhelmed by the sexually charged and deeply inappropriate things that get said BY some fans TO these guys. But here’s the thing, these actors take it in stride and treat their fans like friends. And these cons are very intimate and personal, open and extremely funny. Is content inappropriate sometimes? Yes, thank Chuck. THAT’S USUALLY WHAT MAKES IT FUNNY.
Have you ever watched a comedy routine? How do you handle dark humor? Can you? If you can’t? Don’t watch. Don’t play Cards Against Humanity either. In fact….turn the internet off and spend time around real people. Build up some tolerance. Take your newfound tolerance to a domestic violence shelter and volunteer your time. Immerse yourself in a new culture. Read a few books. Educate yourself a bit and grow wiser. Pick your battles and fight for what’s right. Not for what you “think” is right for Twit hits.
And you know what? If you’re the type of person who is going to go on a witch hunt that results in these guys having to share the same platform with guys like Weinstein and Spacey, with potentially irreversible damage done to their professional and personal lives over something like THIS? Congratulations. You’ve become the thought police. You’re demonizing people who have done a tremendous amount of good in the world around them via campaigns that stem from a desire to reach out to their fandom and support of people in crisis, particularly women, over a lame joke that Jared and especially Jensen, didn’t feel was appropriate to share in the first place. These are genuinely kind and decent men, maybe do some more background research and check your motivation before you irrevocably damage someones well-being and livelihood.
And because I don’t know any of your names or whereabouts, I can’t actually fuck up your life, can I? And even if I could? Why on earth would I?? Anonymity’s great, though….isn’t it? We can go online and sit on our own virtual Mount Olympus, raining down accusations, judgments and sentences with minimal effort, foresight or concern for the ramifications of our actions.
And Jared is a prime example of that sometimes. I’m sorry to say, because he is a good dude, but he’s guilty of some of the same flamebroiling of people that you excuse yourselves from in the name of self righteousness. The difference is – you can hide behind your anonymity. He can’t. And I’m down with calling people on their bullshit behavior (clearly), and Jared has had it coming a few times, but THIS? This is ridiculous.
Since you seem to be fond of extreme responses, I could make the comparison that encouraging, no….demanding that someone do something that they don’t want to do, and then shaming them for it when they do what you’ve asked? That’s REAL textbook abuse.Chew on that for a minute.
Congrats again, because when you search either of their names, that’s the FIRST thing that comes up. "Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles made a rape joke”. The joke in and of itself doesn’t and shouldn’t negate all the good they’ve put out in the world, but in the eyes of the general public outside the fandom? NOW it does. THAT’S what people now see.
It’s amazing how a 7 word joke can lead to online character assassination that tears down over a decade of good works. And I wouldn’t blame them one bit for shutting down future cons and/or reducing their conversation with fans to subject matter that strictly pertains to the show.
And if you have stated any iteration of “I will no longer be a fan or watch this show because of these horrible meanies”… GOOD. FUCKING. RIDDANCE. It would make the SPN Family a much better place to be if ya’ll and your other easily offended brethren who can dish it out, but can’t take it, would fuck off to parts unknown to fixate on something else and leave us in peace.
Yeah. Fuck it. I’m going to say some things and they aren’t going to be nice. I’ll put it under a cut for people who hate wank.
I love both the brothers. I really do. But I started out as a fan of Dean so a part of my heart will always belong to him. Or will it? Not if the writers can’t do any better than this.
His constantly attacking Sam is ridiculous. His inability to realize Jack could help them doesn’t look like “grieving” as the writers seem to think it does. It makes him look like a fucking idiot. The kid has unlimited powers. Of course he could bring back Castiel, help get Mary back, whatever. But the writers and Andrew FUCKING Dabb are apparently hellbent on making Dean look upset about losing people and in the process, they make him look like he’s stupid. DEAN IS NOT STUPID, DAMN IT.
And speaking of stupid, why is he suddenly a shitty hunter? There was a wraith running around and he didn’t think maybe- JUST MAYBE- either he or Jody should stay behind and protect Missouri? One of them couldn’t roll out and warn her family while the other stayed and stopped her from getting killed? Why? And because of that giant assload of bullshit, Missouri is dead.
I’m so fed up. It’s character assassination, pure and simple.
And on another note, can the writers quit telling flat out lies and expecting us to believe them? When did Castiel ever help Sam with his powers? He didn’t and all you have to do to see that this little bit of nonsense was a lie is ACTUALLY WATCH THE SHOW. It insults the intelligence of everyone watching and that makes me almost as mad as the way the writers are treating Dean. If they want anyone to accept that Castiel is their “family”, they need to be upfront about the fact that they like him even though he’s done some messed up stuff. Like they do for each other and their other friends and allies. Don’t continue to lie about how much he’s screwed up and try to rewrite history and expect people to believe it.
Don’t even get me started on how much they neglect Sam. We’ll be here all night. He only exists to support everyone else and look very, very pretty at this point and that is complete bullshit. Sam is so much more than that.
I hated season 12 but I really enjoyed the first two episodes of season 13 and thought this year might be better. Silly me.
First off, let me say that normally I wouldn’t answer this on my blog because I try to keep this my happy place. But this is important so I can’t keep quiet here.
I did hear something about that. Apparently quite a few people emailed Creation when they announced the Jensen/Misha panel and politely inquired about whether there would be anything extra for Jared. Creation told everyone there would be. I saw the announcement about the con that Creation just sent out and there’s really nothing about him at all. I guess they could possibly still add something but it seemed pretty final. I really hope I’m wrong about that.
The best thing to do if it upsets you is to email Creation and say something. Even people who aren’t going to the con can send them a polite message voicing their concerns. Or you could tweet them. Have you ever looked at Creation’s mentions on twitter? It’s full of people demanding Jensen/Misha and J2M panels. If that’s all they’re seeing then of course they’re going to think that’s what all fans want.
And speaking of that, I think people who love the brothers and J2 need to speak up more on twitter in general. When any of the official accounts or people who work on the show tweet something, we should tweet back and express our love for the Winchesters and the Js. Right now not enough of us are doing that and our voices are getting drowned out by people complaining that certain characters aren’t getting enough screen time or that a ship isn’t canon. Don’t be rude about it or engage with people who want to attack you for speaking up. Just say what you have to say and put it out there.
As for them doing more panels with Jensen and Misha, the problem atm is time. They’re only there on Sunday and that day is PACKED. To do the Hawaii one, Jensen had to give up part of his lunch time. So they would have to overhaul the entire thing and what are they going to cut out to make room for it? Certainly not ops and autos- that’s where they make most of their profits. The only way it would work is if Jensen and Jared were there during the day on Saturday too and that would cost Creation so I can’t see it happening. Just my opinion.
nothingidputbeforeyou 